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Tiberius67

Friendly Fire and WoWS Legends

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A question I think is on the minds of many players....especially those of us who participated in the WoT Console Beta and early release, is whether Friendly Fire is to be allowed in WoWS: Legends.  While, IMO, the WoWS Team has done a very good job of minimizing the number of incidents where players intentionally damage or sink their team-mates, the console communities are a somewhat different environment from PC. In WoTC, griefing and trolling became so prevalent that Friendly Fire was entirely disabled, and on the WoTC Forums posts suggesting bringing it back were guaranteed clickbait that could generate multi-page threads with ease.  While personally, I feel that fire discipline should be part of a player's skillset and friendly fire should be on....I also don't like the idea of getting torpedoed at spawn by a 10 year old just for laughs, especially if I loaded up on flags and camo for the match.  To that end, I would like the ask the following questions, and invite other forumers to give their opinions as well.

 Will Friendly Fire be enabled for Legends? If yes, will the policy be similar to what is in effect on WoWS?

I think the ideal would be for it to be on, with severe financial penalties calibrated to bankrupt anyone making a habit of TKing, if they aren't banned first.

 

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The console player base is a different breed than PC. Friendly fire in WoT beta was an absolute disaster, and I can't see it working out any better for Legends.

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27 minutes ago, RagingxMarmoset said:

The console player base is a different breed than PC. Friendly fire in WoT beta was an absolute disaster, and I can't see it working out any better for Legends.

Players loved killing me in beta for some reason with FF.

I hope we don't have it in legends, half the would not make it out of spawn

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Posted (edited)

I would like FF to stay,

how it works on warships is entirely different from what WOT did. (teammate turns into blue team, you can friendly fire him out of the game for free)

if you TK, you get damage reflected, you will only end up TKing yourself. (unless your account is fairly clean)

 

@Sub_Octavian additionally, now that i have started giving thought to griefs and asshats, i'll be on xbone, where i can record game clips and send them to support as rule violations tickets if i absolutely need to. (if this is even a thing, i hope it would be?)

Edited by Soldier09V5
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15 minutes ago, Soldier09V5 said:

I would like FF to stay,

how it works on warships is entirely different from what WOT did. (teammate turns into blue team, you can friendly fire him out of the game for free)

if you TK, you get damage reflected, you will only end up TKing yourself. (unless your account is fairly clean)

 

@Sub_Octavian additionally, now that i have started giving thought to griefs and asshats, i'll be on xbone, where i can record game clips and send them to support as rule violations tickets if i absolutely need to. (if this is even a thing, i hope it would be?)

The problem is your assuming console trolls/griefers care if they get punished, they don't. All the console griefers care about is griefing.

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Posted (edited)

If you cause enough "accidents" in WoWS you will get the pink ship syndrome. You could be banned from the random mode and forced to serve time in Co-op battles. For Alpha and Beta testing, please leave friendly fire active.

I nearly did that last night using torpedoes but fortunately the friendly was too close for the torps to arm. A while back I got parallel with a friendly ship in my BB and part of my salvo ended up in that ship after leaving the barrels, I had to spend few games in co-op.

Edited by dcr66

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Just now, Ruthless4u said:

The problem is your assuming console trolls/griefers care if they get punished, they don't. All the console griefers care about is griefing.

and your assuming they actually can. the Anti TK system in Ships is FAR FAR FAR FAR greater than Tanks.

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1 hour ago, RagingxMarmoset said:

The console player base is a different breed than PC. Friendly fire in WoT beta was an absolute disaster, and I can't see it working out any better for Legends.

I remember Beta and the early live game quite well...it was a nightmare, but then WoTC was unwilling to be proactive to stop it, while WoWS is pretty good about it. I've only been attacked on purpose in WoWS once in the last 150 games or so and the troll ended up sinking themselves with mirrored damage before I really got hurt.

I think it can be made to work, but I hope the Dev Team is thinking about the challenge that is going to be presented by the trolls and griefers on console.....once the Open Beta rolls around they're going to have to contend with it, if they haven't already in CBT.

 

1 hour ago, Ruthless4u said:

The problem is your assuming console trolls/griefers care if they get punished, they don't. All the console griefers care about is griefing.


I think it could be brought under control, if the will was there to do what had to be done to stop it. Hitting TKers with a fine of double or more of the cost of repairs (and expended consumables) of their victims would speedily bankrupt them and they wouldn't be able to play for long. they may not care about punishment but they need credits to repair their ships so they can play, and I doubt they will be willing to spend real money to convert doubloons to credits so that they can continue to troll in the face of crippling credit fines...in effect, WG would be trolling them and I'd doubt if they would like that much. 

 

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Hmmm.... This is an interesting question with wonderfully valid points on both sides.

I think they’ve already done a great job with managing FF trolls in WoWs and I would expect they’ll repeat and modify that success here on Legends.  Even with the reputations of console players, I think it’s worth keeping FF in some form.

I just feel like the FF mechanics generally encourage more situational/team awareness when players understand the need to actually keep their teammates alive and healthy.

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1 hour ago, BrogueOne said:

Hmmm.... This is an interesting question with wonderfully valid points on both sides.

I think they’ve already done a great job with managing FF trolls in WoWs and I would expect they’ll repeat and modify that success here on Legends.  Even with the reputations of console players, I think it’s worth keeping FF in some form.

I just feel like the FF mechanics generally encourage more situational/team awareness when players understand the need to actually keep their teammates alive and healthy.

I suppose open beta is where FF mechanics will either work out or blow up in our faces, so to speak. I feel like this game will end up as a smaller niche product, and I'd hate to see anyone put off because of morons trolling as soon the starting bell rings. 

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Why is friendly fire even a thing is MMO style games??? it exists souly for the purpose of trolls and greifers to use it to anger allies or to unfairly punish people who accidentally kill a friendly. Good Example of this is COD's hardcore mode and a dumb ally walks on a grenade you threw and he gets blown up and you get kicked even though you had no intentions. 

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25 minutes ago, LIBARYKEEPER483 said:

Why is friendly fire even a thing is MMO style games??? it exists souly for the purpose of trolls and greifers to use it to anger allies or to unfairly punish people who accidentally kill a friendly. Good Example of this is COD's hardcore mode and a dumb ally walks on a grenade you threw and he gets blown up and you get kicked even though you had no intentions. 

Friendly fire isn’t even close to being a fundamental problem in WoWs and WoTs(PC).  Trolling and griefing still happens, sure, but the combination of player culture/community and WG issued punishments makes it something you rarely see.  In fact, most FF incidents on WoWs are accidents by careless players..... and because there’s in game chat, those players will usually apologize.

This isn’t Call of Duty where the solo sniper can pwn everything that spawns... This is a game where the strength of the team is what wins games.  Wargamers also don’t put up with that crap.... we know how the Report feature works! 

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2 minutes ago, BrogueOne said:

Friendly fire isn’t even close to being a fundamental problem in WoWs and WoTs(PC).  Trolling and griefing still happens, sure, but the combination of player culture/community and WG issued punishments makes it something you rarely see.  In fact, most FF incidents on WoWs are accidents by careless players..... and because there’s in game chat, those players will usually apologize.

This isn’t Call of Duty where the solo sniper can pwn everything that spawns... This is a game where the strength of the team is what wins games.  Wargamers also don’t put up with that crap.... we know how the Report feature works! 

That still doesn't answer my question of Why is it even a thing? 

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Posted (edited)

Even if you turn off FF trolls and greifers are going to find an other way to have their "fun". In Wot console they started pushing people off cliffs and out of cover. I think it should be left on over the alpha and beta to test the waters and decide where to go after that.

Edited by Warmonger_Teepee

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1 hour ago, Warmonger_Teepee said:

Even if you turn off FF trolls and greifers are going to find an other way to have their "fun". In Wot console they started pushing people off cliffs and out of cover. I think it should be left on over the alpha and beta to test the waters and decide where to go after that.

which is why i suggested using game clips features on your console to submit rule violation evidence in support tickets

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I believe we should be able to elaborate a little bit on this topic in a couple of weeks.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, BrogueOne said:

Friendly fire isn’t even close to being a fundamental problem in WoWs and WoTs(PC).  Trolling and griefing still happens, sure, but the combination of player culture/community and WG issued punishments makes it something you rarely see.  In fact, most FF incidents on WoWs are accidents by careless players..... and because there’s in game chat, those players will usually apologize.

This isn’t Call of Duty where the solo sniper can pwn everything that spawns... This is a game where the strength of the team is what wins games.  Wargamers also don’t put up with that crap.... we know how the Report feature works! 

Mentality of the human players in PC vs Console. Many "kids" have consoles but few will get a PC powerful enough to handle WoWS in acceptable graphics settings. I have played WoWS in lower settings (old laptop dying and work laptop on the road) I can live with it because I had to but not for long duration. My son (12 now but played for 2 yrs) plays WoT Console on his own Xbox. You won't understand how a kid plays until you see it live in front of your eyes. Mouth rambling is 1 issue. Wasting shells into friendlies at spawn, pushing, nudging, ramming, on friendlies at spawn......

Edited by dcr66
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9 hours ago, LIBARYKEEPER483 said:

That still doesn't answer my question of Why is it even a thing? 

Because it’s supposed to make you more aware of your team and your surroundings!  It adds a layer of challenge and responsibility which forces you to pay more attention if you want to win.

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Would I be wrong to assume that the trolling and people being idiots would be kept to the lower tiers with FF on? Maybe if it was the assumption that the kids with consoles are the causes of trolling ( I would agree but I don't have physical evidence ) they would be unwilling to put in the time and effort in grinding a ( already mentioned within this post some what ) niche game?

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I don't think FF will work. Griefers are quite inventive, and if FF is punishable, they will enjoy being victims of FF, which is easier to do in WoWs than WoT. Even in WoTc with complete elimination of FF pink tanks were introduced because if you cannot kill your teammates with fire, you can drown them etc.

WoWs blitz does not have FF and works great. As a purist I would prefer FF, but let us not forget, that with all historical flavour, WG games are not simulators.

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5 hours ago, BrogueOne said:

Because it’s supposed to make you more aware of your team and your surroundings!  It adds a layer of challenge and responsibility which forces you to pay more attention if you want to win.

Yeah you're right it does add challenge and responsibility, babysitting your team so they don't end up gobbling your bullets like a Chinese buffet is exactly the challenge I want in my MMOs.

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3 hours ago, Starshoy said:

I don't think FF will work. Griefers are quite inventive, and if FF is punishable, they will enjoy being victims of FF, which is easier to do in WoWs than WoT. Even in WoTc with complete elimination of FF pink tanks were introduced because if you cannot kill your teammates with fire, you can drown them etc.

WoWs blitz does not have FF and works great. As a purist I would prefer FF, but let us not forget, that with all historical flavour, WG games are not simulators.

im sorry, but in what universe is FF easier to do in WoWS then in WoT?

i have been accidentally hit by a friendly HE in WoWS with my repair down, (we were both hugging an island for cover so very tightly spaced) 

got set on fire, and the damage reflect killed him. the FF mechanics in ships is extremely harsh to team killers, even accidental ones.

 

and then over in WoT, you shoot a team mate a couple times, and you may turn blue? and most of the time blue players are ignored,

because "they can still shoot at the enemy"

hell no, they are the enemy, they ended up on blue team.

*rant done*

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the only FF that needs to be removed, is when carriers are implemented, so they can not bomb themselves out of a game where they sucked at.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Soldier09V5 said:

im sorry, but in what universe is FF easier to do in WoWS then in WoT?

I wrote that it is much easier for griefer to become "a victim" of FF if he wants. Should I still explain how, or it is obvious?

Edited by Starshoy
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21 hours ago, LIBARYKEEPER483 said:

That still doesn't answer my question of Why is it even a thing? 

It's there to make you put some thought into launching that torpedo spread, instead of just mindlessly spamming torp soup everywhere..

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