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Why are Legends the way they are?

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And where is the Yamato?

This is a question we get from you, Legends, and it seems that the time to have the talk is now. For those of you who prefer short-form reading we can say this: Yamato will enter the ship roster at some point. The statement is true  for many of her peers as well. If that's enough to alleviate your reservations - good! If you'd like to get a deeper look into the actions behind development - read on.

Legends is a game about XX century warships. It is quite obvious that it would be incomplete without such iconic and legendary (see what we did here?) ship as the Yamato. She, together with her counterparts from other nations will have to be looked at again from the balance perspective before she is reborn as the pinnacle of the Japanese battleship branch. We can't yet say which tier she will occupy, and how many tiers there will be eventually, but the ceiling is going to be raised most likely. For now, seven tiers are set in stone.

Now let's talk about why she's not among the Legends from the very beginning. Our PC players are familiar with the shifts one experiences while moving along the tiers. Very basic gameplay on tier I ships - gun boats, then protected cruisers and dreadnoughts on tiers II and III which continue the "pew-pew" motif while introducing destroyers and battleships, following tiers are centered around WWI dreadnought and post-dreadnought era vessels. Tier VI, VII and VIII are mostly WWII ships, while IX and X are reserved for the top performers of WWII and post-war years. Yamato is a hallmark tier X ship that, thanks to her armor and armament, became a pinnacle that had to be matched at the tier balance-wise, and that's why we had to look for inspiration within some of the projects that were not finished in steel. Those parameters of her also mean that there's quite a drastic shift in gameplay once you reach tier X. 

What adds another layer of complexity for her implementation is the amount of information you need to consume and digest when playing a tier X ship. That includes, but is not limited to: long range fire fights, being aware of destroyers and torpedoes, smokescreens, many cooldowns that need to be tracked, later on - carrier aviation. In addition, thanks to the weaponry available at the tier, mistakes become severely more costly than on tier VIII for example and you need to plan your actions significantly ahead. Don't forget that we're also bringing battleships closer to action.

All of the above mentioned factors need to be kept in mind and on the screen. PC version presumes that you're fairly close to your monitor, therefore the UI elements can be comparatively small. Console use case is aimed at the "couch" experience first and foremost, where the average player will sit several feet away from the screen, so the elements need to be quite a bit more obvious and large while the overall amount of info that we can relay to the player is somewhat limited. Gamepad also affects player's situational awareness due to the difference in camera controls with the PC counterpart. 

Now that we have the information flow under control, we can touch upon the team size and match maker. Both 9v9 configuration and +1/-1 match maker will allow you to find battles fast and those battles are never going to have a more that a single tier discrepancy. Remember that playstyle does shift every couple of tiers and ability to find a match independent of which you prefer. Another factor for choosing those particular numbers and rules is that we're going to have 2 separate platforms that unfortunately do not allow for cross play. We do expect a wide player base eventually, but we still need to start somewhere.

To sum it up, current conditions and configuration will allow for comfortable flow of data from the TV screen to the player thanks to the clean UI, quick matchmaking, independent of which console you choose or which tier you prefer, dynamic battles,  and a sea of opportunities for growth. But the starting point for release is the one we find optimal. Fear not, Yamato will enter the picture, you just have to exercise some patience 🙂

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Iwaki? Kamikaze? Just joking...

Nice read. Thanks for the clarification.

Edited by Squibeel

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@Philigula

To be blunt and upfront, there is a lot of concern that legendary ships such as the Yamato will be locked behind either a premium paywall or behind missions that will frustrate players and " encourage " them to pay while they are free to grind on PC. Is there a realistic chance that some of the Tech tree ships from other versions only be offered as premiums here? 

Is there anything you can say to alleviate these concerns( sorry for run on sentence lol)  

Edited by Ruthless4u
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@PhiligulaI think people just want assurance that they will be grindable higher-tier tech tree ships. As long as that's guaranteed, I think people will be fine with adding other nations and learning existing ships first. 🙂

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*nods* while 7 tiers isnt a small number it is definitely too few in the long run so this definitely eases the mind of those of us who like to have entire armadas in our ports 😛

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6 minutes ago, FireMastr said:

*nods* while 7 tiers isnt a small number it is definitely too few in the long run so this definitely eases the mind of those of us who like to have entire armadas in our ports 😛

And who doesn't want a fleet/s of warships at their disposal? 

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I’m happy with iconic ships coming later down the line. Will help keep things fresh with new content.

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Seeing as we are talking about raising the ceiling, maybe number of ships in a match should be looked at =p

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11 minutes ago, Squibeel said:

Seeing as we are talking about raising the ceiling, maybe number of ships in a match should be looked at =p

I think a lot of this is set in stone, I can understand how system limitations can limit players numbers  in the match vs PC.

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14 minutes ago, Ruthless4u said:

I think a lot of this is set in stone, I can understand how system limitations can limit players numbers  in the match vs PC.

Isn't the WoTC numbers a bit higher tho? Besides, 1 or 2 more per team would make a gd difference.

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1 hour ago, NoZephyr said:

I’m happy with iconic ships coming later down the line. Will help keep things fresh with new content.

Couldn’t agree with you more.

I’ve never played on PC. I love naval history but frankly I don’t care about Yamato one way or the other. Sure, she’ll be awesome to have but I’m not losing my mind over that *particular* ship.

I only mention this to illustrate the viewpoint of someone learning about this game from here, on console, with zero prior experience.

Frankly I’m into all of the ships so far; their histories are interesting to me. 

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Seeing that they are copying the same layout that is used in WoT being package based instead of module based I have faith in what they are doing also seeing that it is only T8 and missing the T9/10 is because I think they want to test the game 1st beforehand 🤷‍♂️ Who knows the game could be a flop but I’m looking forward 

regarding cross platform I can never see PS4 and Xbox together but if we had the same graphics engine as Pc I say we can 100% cross plat form as War Thunder do it and have no problems

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1 hour ago, Squibeel said:

Seeing as we are talking about raising the ceiling, maybe number of ships in a match should be looked at =p

Clan and ranked is only 7v7 on PC(same with WoT), so 9v9 may be okay. But I hope the competitive format stays 9v9 as well. 

1 hour ago, Ruthless4u said:

I think a lot of this is set in stone, I can understand how system limitations can limit players numbers  in the match vs PC.

I doubt it's system limitations. 

47 minutes ago, Devildog_627 said:

Couldn’t agree with you more.

I’ve never played on PC. I love naval history but frankly I don’t care about Yamato one way or the other. Sure, she’ll be awesome to have but I’m not losing my mind over that *particular* ship.

I only mention this to illustrate the viewpoint of someone learning about this game from here, on console, with zero prior experience.

Frankly I’m into all of the ships so far; their histories are interesting to me. 

I'm not big on battleships either, more interested in the Tier X cruisers and destroyers from PC. Des Moines, Gearing, Hindenburg, Minotaur, Shimakaze, Zao, Z-52, Henri, Yue Yang, etc. 

39 minutes ago, dexs911 said:

Seeing that they are copying the same layout that is used in WoT being package based instead of module based I have faith in what they are doing also seeing that it is only T8 and missing the T9/10 is because I think they want to test the game 1st beforehand 🤷‍♂️ Who knows the game could be a flop but I’m looking forward 

regarding cross platform I can never see PS4 and Xbox together but if we had the same graphics engine as Pc I say we can 100% cross plat form as War Thunder do it and have no problems

Tier VII. Legends is a completely separate and different game from PC, so there will be no cross platform. Maybe with PS4 some day if Sony ever allows it, but won't hold my breath. 

Edited by RuefulCenturion

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15 minutes ago, RuefulCenturion said:

Maybe with PS4 some day if Sony ever allows it, but won't hold my breath. 

Don’t expect to see that this generation, PS4 has sold so well they won’t feel they need to. However cross platform is a case of ‘when’ not ‘if’ IMO. Unless your game is the biggest in the world right now... on every platform imaginable... with dances... you know what I’m talking about...

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I just want to play. I get the ships that i get lol. Honestly a lot of people are asking great questions and covered the ones i was going to ask but 1. If you buy premium time in legends will it also put  premium time on Wot like it does on PC?

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3 minutes ago, woo67 said:

I just want to play. I get the ships that i get lol. Honestly a lot of people are asking great questions and covered the ones i was going to ask but 1. If you buy premium time in legends will it also put  premium time on Wot like it does on PC?

No, nothing carries over. 

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34 minutes ago, Squibeel said:

Isn't the WoTC numbers a bit higher tho? Besides, 1 or 2 more per team would make a gd difference.

Big difference between warships and tanks. I'm no computer expert so if I'm wrong @T33kanne, @Philigula please correct me.

In Wot you have tanks that have one gun to track shells in relation to their target. In warships anything bigger than a destroyer has in addition to its main guns, secondaries, and possibly torpedoes to track in relation to their target and calculate the damage to said target. That's not including AA if/when aircraft carriers are added. Torpedo animations, flak animations, flying aircraft, etc are a lot of work.

Another thing legends has that wot does not is smoke screens from multiple ships possible, that eats up a lot processing power as well. Smoke rounds have been requested since beta on WOTC, but was told the Xbox could not handle it. I imagine that reducing players per team may help with the issue.

You get things like the ships wake, sinking animations, fire( up to 4 per ship iirc) animations, wiggly bits like flags, environmental ( NPC aircraft, clouds etc) it all adds up to strain on the console. So to me it makes sense why something like smaller teams may be needed, even tho I prefer larger teams as well.

But it's entirely possible I'm talking out my rear, if I am can someone correct me lol.

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6 minutes ago, Ruthless4u said:

wiggly bits

Always the worst offenders :Smile_trollface:

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17 hours ago, Philigula said:

...All of the above mentioned factors need to be kept in mind and on the screen. PC version presumes that you're fairly close to your monitor, therefore the UI elements can be comparatively small. Console use case is aimed at the "couch" experience first and foremost, where the average player will sit several feet away from the screen, so the elements need to be quite a bit more obvious and large while the overall amount of info that we can relay to the player is somewhat limited. Gamepad also affects player's situational awareness due to the difference in camera controls with the PC counterpart...

...To sum it up, current conditions and configuration will allow for comfortable flow of data from the TV screen...

First, thank you for Yamato part. I really understand and support the point.

Secondly, you know what i’ll say about this. I think some of you sometimes hesitating to say, “we dont have enough people to do that.” 

Im one of the first alpha testers of this game, i know you well too. When you dont have enough crew for something to do that people suggest, you generally say things you don’t really want to mean, we reed like, “this is console, you dont need this here.” and this turns into old, “dont underestimate console players” discussions like some people did in this forum.

Guys please, this is nearly 2019 and these are previous gaming generation discussions. People talked enough in ps2-3 and xbox30 era, let’s not discover console gaming experience for very begining. This year nearly a lot of game awards went to ps4 exclusives or console only games(like red dead). Im sure you know what’s going on around here actually.

But let's talk about this deeply. You think you made right decision about fleet view, large materials, zoom options etc. But actually you put yourself instead of players and give desicion to where we should sit our houses. You can enter a xbox and ps4 community page on facebook or reddit and a quick search or asking question to see their gaming desk. Im sure a good portion of them ll show you that they’ll put their consoles just next behind their PC at the same desk. Some gamers have console and pc at the same time. If not, some of them set a gaming desk and chair for their console with a close gaming monitor too. So why do you choose players siting position at their houses or rooms instead of giving additional options to choose which one is fit for them or help their own game senses?

I think true answer always been your technical difficulties. If so, say it. We can understand. Please believe me sometimes this so much better to hear this from you than like your writing above @Philigula. Sounds so odd to me. Because im sure in terms of wg terminology, “you don’t have enough data” for it. If you think you have data, it's probably invalid. Because you have already force people to sit several fleet away from the screen on the couch from begining.

This is thing you’ll see a lot of similar suggestion in everywhere after closed and open beta more than now. I ll want and people ll want to see. You cant say, “this is console, you dont need this” forever.

I know you were trying to your best to being clear and friendly with @T33kanne, @Calypso. But this part sounds no good. Sorry.

Loves, thank you for reeding.

Edited by PietroMaximoff

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@PietroMaximoff

i think you make a good point about how people choose to play their games. I'm in my 40's and I still sit directly in front of my tv just like I did when I was a kid playing Atari/NES. Although I will admit it does no favors for my back lol.

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@PietroMaximoff you'll get more look around options in January. Other than that what our UI needs to be able to deliver is give you as much info as you need, no matter how (reasonably) far you wanna sit. If you're practically glued to your display this shouldn't be an issue, but if you are 2-3 feet away from a decent sized display using a tiny UI just won't work. Fun fact: my work TV is just 1 foot away from my face.

1 hour ago, PietroMaximoff said:

we dont have enough people to do that

The team isn't big, but the points you made were not widely supported, that's all. If 5 other people support you on Discord, that's fine, but when we go to our polls, we see that it's a minority observation. It can change in the future, sure, but at the moment, we just didn't get many complaints.

1 hour ago, PietroMaximoff said:

Im sure a good portion of them ll show you that they’ll put their consoles just next behind their PC at the same desk.

And another good portion will use their couches and we want to cater to both.

1 hour ago, PietroMaximoff said:

I think true answer always been your technical difficulties.

I think you're being dramatic 🙂 

1 hour ago, PietroMaximoff said:

Because you have already force people to sit several fleet away from the screen on the couch from begining.

We don't force people into anything at all.

What's more interesting is that this article was live in the alpha section for a couple of months 😛 

Anyway, your concerns were heard, Pietro, it's just that they weren't predominant, according to your testing mates.

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37 minutes ago, Philigula said:

you'll get more look around options in January.

Sounds good.😉

37 minutes ago, Philigula said:

Fun fact: my work TV is just 1 foot away from my face.

Tell them to buy you couch. Doesnt this game work better from a couch? :classic_sleep:

37 minutes ago, Philigula said:

And another good portion will use their couches and we want to cater to both.

Sounds good again.

37 minutes ago, Philigula said:

I think you're being dramatic 🙂 

Actually this is emotional topic than i told.:classic_sad:

37 minutes ago, Philigula said:

According to your testing mates.

I like my testing friends. :classic_smile:

And lastly thank you again.

Edited by PietroMaximoff

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Your biggest problem is you tubers are probably wargamings best advertisers.  I want Yamato, Montana, Kurfurst, Zao, etc because that's all you see. I find your tier 10 is blah blah blah to be at best a poor excuse. The biggest "legend" you have in the game is Iowa. No sodak no north Carolina.... 

Frankly your entire reaction to this is very close to the "if you don't like it don't buy it" arrogance that has basically destroyed battlefield. 

Not having Yamato in the game at release will be a huge mistake. 

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1 hour ago, Donk341978 said:

Your biggest problem is you tubers are probably wargamings best advertisers.  I want Yamato, Montana, Kurfurst, Zao, etc because that's all you see. I find your tier 10 is blah blah blah to be at best a poor excuse. The biggest "legend" you have in the game is Iowa. No sodak no north Carolina.... 

Frankly your entire reaction to this is very close to the "if you don't like it don't buy it" arrogance that has basically destroyed battlefield. 

Not having Yamato in the game at release will be a huge mistake. 

While the Yamato is hardly legendary it is a popular and widely requested ship.  I can see why I lot of people could be/will  upset that she won't be available at launch.

 

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6 minutes ago, Ruthless4u said:

While the Yamato is hardly legendary it is a popular and widely requested ship.  I can see why I lot of people could be/will  upset that she won't be available at launch.

i agree . Most people were asking for it from the begining of the game . i dont know if Montana will follow Yamato too 

Edited by nti9
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